If we are either on the Lord’s side or we are not, why are there 3 degrees of Glory?
Question
Gramps,
While having a religious discussion I was asked about the 3 degrees of Glory. In my friends eyes, all of our works are as a dirty rag to be burned and all of our sins are equally as horrible before the Lord so you are either a believer or you are not. Having 2 or 3 places to send the sinners to meant that we could justify some sins as being not so bad and still getting some glory. So he wanted to know why there all the extra kingdoms when you are ether on the Lord’s side or you are not. Â Thanks.
Cindy
Answer
Dear Cindy,
The trouble is you are basically comparing apples and oranges. Â LDS doctrine differs substantially from other Christian doctrine in some areas. Â In order to help your friend, you need to explain things outside her box of understanding and help her expand her understanding by expanding her conceptual framework.
Joseph Smith answered the question this way:
“The idea that some men’s form of the justice, judgment, and mercy of God, is too foolish for an intelligent man to think of: for instance, it is common for many of our orthodox preachers to suppose that if a man is not what they call converted, if he dies in that state he must remain eternally in hell without any hope. Infinite years in torment must he spend, and never, never, never have an end; and yet this eternal misery is made frequently to rest upon the merest casualty [chance]. The breaking of a shoe-string, the tearing of a coat of those officiating, or the peculiar location in which a person lives, may be the means, indirectly, of his damnation, or the cause of his not being saved.
“I will suppose a case which is not extraordinary: Two men, who have been equally wicked, who have neglected religion, are both of them taken sick at the same time; one of them has the good fortune to be visited by a praying man, and he gets converted a few minutes before he dies; the other sends for three different praying men, a tailor, a shoemaker, and a tinman; the tinman has a handle to solder to a pan, the tailor has a button-hole to work on some coat that he needed in a hurry, and the shoemaker has a patch to put on somebody’s boot; they none of them can go in time, the man dies, and goes to hell: one of these is exalted to Abraham’s bosom, he sits down in the presence of God and enjoys eternal, uninterrupted happiness, while the other, equally as good as he, sinks to eternal damnation, irretrievable misery and hopeless despair, because a man had a boot to mend, the button-hole of a coat to work, or a handle to solder on to a saucepan.”
“The plans of Jehovah are not so unjust, the statements of holy writ so [illusory], nor the plan of salvation for the human family so incompatible with common sense; at such proceedings God would frown with indignance, angels would hide their heads in shame, and every virtuous, intelligent man would recoil.”
Chapter 35: Â Redemption for the Dead
Gramps
I for one did not really get the analogy…?
I like the answer however I am not sure how it answers the question.
Apples and oranges. The apple is that we are saved by faith alone. If we can exercise sufficient faith to call upon the name of Christ and accept him as our Lord and Redeemer we are saved. Yet faith without works is dead. We could even say the the first work is the exercise of enough faith to call upon Christ.
We are not saved by works yet even so our works are the way that we show our love for our Lord and our fellow man. We are commanded to be perfect (Matt 5:48) (3 Nephi 12:48) yet perfection is not possible for us mortals. It seems as if for us perfection is a process instead of a place yet the commandment does still remain in force.
“Faith without works is dead” implies that we should have works. What then are works? Simply that anything we do because Christ told us to so do is a work. Prayer is a work. Visiting the afflicted is a work as is visiting those shut away in jail or prison. Feeding the poor is another. Love thy neighbor as you love yourself (what does that mean?) is a direct commandant. Note that these are instructions to us as individuals. We cannot farm the obligation out to someone else.
Does someone who has devoted his/her whole life to Christ get the same rewards as one who has done nothing except plea for mercy? Does L Tom Perry get the same set of choices that a felon would get? Does H Gray Russell end up in the same place as a rapist? (H Gray Russell served a mission for his church, The Protestant Disciples of Christ, in the old Belgian Congo from 1924 till 1955). That’s the orange. People who obey the commandments are people who want to return to his presence. People who do not are people who might not be comfortable there. In this sense a deathbed confession is a person saved by Christ who does not much want to live by the truths Christ taught and might not be comfortable in his presence.
Oeople has to be intelligent enough not to get trapped with the idea of the salvation by grace alo e statement .yes we are all sinners yes christ is the only mean to salvation of men but why in the world would some o e believe in some scriptures isoleted and dismiss the rest of the gospel suchas those wheo say co fess the name of tjlhe lord a d you are saved on the spot (regardless of the process of repentance), nonsense stuff we need to observe the process the lord stablished and that include observa ce of the commandments. And the process of repentance as a base for the rest not the pther way around i am sick of those looking to buy cheap salvation. The only gospel if any that makes total sence of what God requires us to do to be saved is the o e that the lds has i have seen other manners but are non sense .now the degrees of glory go along with the way God will j udge his children i totoally refjte the idea of beleieve and be saved. And disbelieve and go to hell. Not what God i tends to do at all we all will be qualified of dismissed from his presence accordi g to our dees thats what he will base his judment on besides other thi gs such as knowlede of him and other factors. . remem er we are not working our salvation Gods grace applies to al mand kind no matter of his religion affiliation but ecaltation is a conditional thi g we must obey the commandments and ordinances stablished by him . no. Othter way. We can not tell God wow we want to be saved he does we just abide by his laws. Dont get. Deceived.
I dont think Christ cares where we repent, deathbed or not. In that sense any true conversion is valid. The trick is how likely do we think a conversion under threwt of death would really be? In the scriptures the Lord warns against waiting till the hour of our greatest need before repenting. He warns that since we were slow seeking him when he was blessing us we should not be surprised when he does not hear us in our hour of trouble. Or as the scriptures put it, his spirit will not always strive with man. Or i recall in the book of mormon that mormon and others lamented the wicked state of the people in that their repentance was opportunistic in nature and lasted only as long as the trial thus they were not truky converted. The Lord wants to forgive but we cant reasonably expect to procrastinate the day of our repentence. Ask anyone who is already on that path and they will tell you that it comes in steps and waves of constant progress. Its is not a single event for most people. Although i cannot judge that it is impossible to truly convert and repent on a deathbed i do think it is highly unlikely that such a repentence will be with a oure heart in most cases. I guess we can ask the Lord this one. But my job is not to condemn anyone but seek for and pray for their eternal progress.